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Sunday, May 18, 2008

Hebrews 9

Mediating through Hebrews 9 recently, I came to verse 26:

Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.

It seems that there is an acknowlegement of continuous history connected with human's soteriological need extending to the foundation of the world.

Within the Bible's frame of reference, the reference to the foundation of the world can only be to the opening chapter of Genesis 1. It also seems to be in presumptive harmony with the chronological milestones marked through the OT, from which the Jews calculate the age of the world to be a mark under 6000 years.

Here we have, it would seem, a statement of the necessity of a salvation connection extending to the year dot, implying pretty obviously that humans in need of salvation had a history coextensive with the history of creation.

Along with Hebrews 11:3 (By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible.) this would seem to eliminate realist views of origins that reject the biblical conception of time that is woven through the OT, and reinforced in the NT. The purely realist treatment of Cain and Abel and their connection to the original man made in Genesis would also seem to set the dependence of these concepts on a continuity in the biblical time-frame of reference that is denied systematically and without real biblical warrant (to my mind) by the SADs and their pals.

The biblical language and flow of historical ideas do not allow the extended periods of earth history that is insisted by materialist views.

14 comments:

sam drucker said...

Good point Eric. It indicates sin came very early.

Sam

Anonymous said...

Hi,

I am a visitor from Question Darwin.

I have a question about Genesis that I wondered if I might ask here, although it does not relate to the subject of your latest post.

John said...

Fire away, Scollins.

Anonymous said...

Genesis 3:9, 3:11, 3:13

Why does God ask these questions? As He knows everything, surely He would already know the answers to them. Is He being rhetorical?

Ktisophilos said...

Scollins, asking questions has long been an effective teaching method. It is sometimes called the Socratic Method, but Socrates was hardly the first. Jesus also used questions to teach. The point is to guide the student to teach himself.

John said...

Scollins,

What do you mean by 'everything'?

John said...

The questions God asked were all concerned with getting Adam and Eve to 'fess up. Isn't this the first and final stage of admitting guilt?

One could make a fairly good hypothetical case to say that if they had admitted their wrongdoing i.e. not blame the other, then we wouldn't be in the mess we're in today. God had given them their way out as it was contained in each of his questions.

Anonymous said...

Re the "everything" point, the indirect answer is I am currently troubled by John 6:64.

I am thinking about Adam and Eve.

John said...

I wrote: "The questions God asked were all concerned with getting Adam and Eve to 'fess up. Isn't this the first and final stage of admitting guilt? "

I also should have written, "a part
of relationship restoration."

Re John 6:64, what's the problem?

Anonymous said...

1. Genesis 3

Having sinned by eating the fruit, Adam and Eve proceed to sin again by attempting to excuse and cover up what they have done. Having fallen they continue to fall.

v10, 12 & 13. Do Adam and Eve know they are sinning at this point?


2. John 6:64

I am in a big muddle about this. Could we just clear up Genesis 3 and then discuss it?

Anonymous said...

and also verses 7 and 8

neil moore said...

It would be helpful, SCollins, if you go straight to the question behind the question.

I reckon that will save time for you and other commentators here.

With all due respect,

Neil Moore

Anonymous said...

Sorry.
I forgot I am new.

I will go away and think about my questions by myself for a bit.

neil moore said...

Cheers!

Neil Moore