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Friday, June 10, 2011

An Earnest Cry to Atheists.

A recent publication called Creation Extra from Creation Ministries International contained extracts of a letter from a former Atheist which I believe warrants wider circulation. I obtained permission for Creation Ministries International to reproduce it here following:

The atrocity of atheism
It’s a fate worse than death.

By Gary Bates
CEO, CMI–Worldwide

This month’s Creation Extra is rather sobering, yet encouraging. It should serve as a wakeup call to the very real need to get the truth out about biblical creation as far and as wide as we all can.

Some time ago, Justin S., a former atheist, shared his heart with us. At a time when so many Christians are failing to recognize where the rubber really hits the road when it comes to confronting a secular worldview, this young man really ‘nails it.’ Here are some excerpts of what he wrote:

Dear CMI, I cannot express my gratitude in words. I became a Christian three years ago after struggling with thoughts of suicide due to my atheistic beliefs.

Your ministry truly saved my life.

I was raised in a secular home, and surrounded by atheistic propaganda from an early age … from school or the media. Unsurprisingly, I became an atheist at the age of 12. As the years passed and I truly tried to understand the world around me, I discovered a horrifying truth that had been hidden from me, hidden from everyone.

This is the reason I am writing this letter, as even in your excellent articles on atheism [see creation.com/atheism], you do not truly reveal the extent to which the atheists deceive everyone, even themselves. Atheists often say that they can truly live a happy, fulfilling life. Yet this is a lie, a deception which damns millions of souls to darkness. … Simply put, atheism destroys the possibility of personal identity, choice, and objective and subjective meaning.

Atheism inescapably leads to naturalism, and from naturalism follows atheism’s great skeleton which its followers try to keep hidden; determinism. Determinism is inescapable if one is a naturalist, as all that exists is material and has come about by purely natural processes. This means then, that the mind of man, our greatest treasure, is reducible to material bound by physical laws; namely, our thoughts, feelings, and actions are reducible to reactions of chemicals in the brain.
Few people realize, then, that this destroys all that makes us human. Namely; if our thoughts, feelings, and actions are simply chemical reactions in the brain … This means then, that whatever we do, we do because we have to. We cannot do anything other than what we do, it simply isn’t possible. All actions are the result of prior actions in an unbreakable chain. We are no different than a cog in a watch or a falling domino.

There is no difference between the embrace of a loving husband and the violence of a vicious rapist; the actions of a doctor trying to save a life and the mass murderer who kills at whim; the actions of our greatest leaders and the inaction of a lazy sluggard. Both are totally the same in atheism.

Objective meaning is non-existent, and subjective meaning is incoherent! Would we say the action of a robot picking up a glass bottle has any meaning, value, or significance? Of course not! It’s simply doing what it has to! It can do nothing else! In what sense can an atheist say that he as a person truly exists? The material which composes our body is recycled every seven years, and our consciousness seems to cease every time we go to bed. So in what sense is the mass of matter that wakes up in the morning the same person as the one who went to bed the night before?

As you can see, atheism is utterly horrific! Sadly, most atheists are unaware of these things! I believe if they truly understood the consequences of what they believed, they would reconsider their position.

I know I did, God bless
.

Many think that atheism is just a non-belief in a deity. But this well-written letter aptly describes its true meaning. As atheist Cornell biology professor William Provine confirmed, evolution means: “There is no ultimate foundation for ethics, no ultimate meaning to life, and no free will for humans, either.”1 We can see its fruit every day when we read or look at the daily news and see how godless people act on their belief that there is no tomorrow because there is no Creator. Justin was brought up on a diet of evolution and without an alternative viewpoint he was left without hope.

In God’s providence, all it took was for him to be exposed to information that countered the falsehoods that he’d been taught under the guise of science. It doesn’t have to be this way. CMI can do so much more with your help. With your much-needed support, you can help to keep the information machine churning. Even a small amount per month really does help.

Thanks for considering this.

1. Origins Research 16(1/2):9, 1994. Provine also correctly observed that “…belief in modern evolution makes atheists of people. One can have a religious view that is compatible with evolution only if the religious view is indistinguishable from atheism.” In Rossiter, M. ed., Catching up with the Vision, p. S123, 1999.

- End of article -

My heart's desire is for Atheists to come into the truth, that they experience new light and life as did the correspondent cited here.

Theistic Evolutionists would have been no help to this person receiving the truth.

Sam Drucker

34 comments:

Peter said...

I was raised in a secular home, and surrounded by atheistic propaganda from an early age … from school or the media.

atheism destroys the possibility of ... subjective meaning


Right....

The letter is clearly a fake. Justin S. was never an atheist. If he left us, he was never really with us.

Critias said...

How about that; a Calvinist atheist!

sam drucker said...

Peter, the guy is legit.

Critias, well observed.

Sam Drucker

John said...

Hey, Peter, your argument is a perfect example of Popper's falsification theory i.e. heads I win, tails you lose!

Peter said...

Sam,

Of course it is fake. Everyone knows that. It is a Christian document defending the faith. And from CMI of all places.


John,

of course it is unfalsifiable. I learned it from the Bible.

sam drucker said...

Peter, this could be a helpful discussion to ascertain how you make the decisions in life that you do.

You said "Of course it is fake. Everyone knows that.

Please produce the evidence for this assertion.

Sam Drucker

Eric said...

Peter needs it to be fake, because it undermines atheism; we don't need it to be fake because we've all travelled the path, and so know it from the inside!

Peter said...

Sam,

It is written in everyone's heart that creationist docs about atheists are fake. Search your hearth and you'll see it.


Eric,

You are right that I and other atheists need it to be fake because personal testimonies are the best way to find truth. People who claim that atheism destroys subjective meaning of everything truly undermines atheism.

John said...

Peter,

Do you mean 'objective' and not 'subjective'?

sam drucker said...

Peter said "It is written in everyone's heart that creationist docs about atheists are fake. Search your hearth and you'll see it.

Says it all doesn't it?

With that kind of sentiment driving motivation it is no wonder Creationists will consistently win the debate.

Peter, if only you will shift from the subjective to the objective a whole new and real world will open to you. More than that, you can have an eternal and joyous relationship in the presence of your Creator.

Sam Drucker

Peter said...

John,

The fake letter attacks subjective meaning atheists have. Only theist have meaning which is subject[ive] and relates[ive] to God.


Sam,

You are right that creationists consistently win the debates according to creationists. This is why almost all biologist are creationists and cosmologist are convinced that their answers will be found in holy books

I just shifted to the objective world view. You are right, now I have an objective meaning of life. I can’t wait to meet my Creator and ask her where her objective world view is grounded.

sam drucker said...

Peter, consistent with the order of your life you remain subjective in your dealing with the matter.

I'm still waiting for you to produce the evidence for your statement "Of course it is fake. Everyone knows that."

Deliver!

Sam Drucker

Brian said...

Yes, Peter, deliver!

Peter said...

Sam,

I just told you that I left the incoherent subjectivity.

Sam, Brian,
The evidence for my statement is written in your heart. Just because you deny it, it does not mean it is not there. You might be blinded by sin in your life if you can't see it.

sam drucker said...

Peter brings to the discussion and to the letter of the former Atheist a subjective reaction which, by personal motivation, cannot accept a reality.

It gives weight to my observation that many Atheists label themselves as such because they want to rather than by any body of evidence justifying such a position.

Sam Drucker

Brian said...

Sam
I can't find any reference to that article or even to the publication on the internet. Do you have a link or more details?
Brian

sam drucker said...

Brian, it was a publication called
CMI Extra which came with the latest issue (July - Sept) of Creation magazine of which I am a subscriber.

Upon reading the extract of the letter from a former Atheist I thought it helpful to give it wider publication. Consequently, I rang CMI and obtained permission and an electronic version of the article from which I published here.

Contrary to what Peter says, I regard the letter as genuine. Not just because I have experience to trust the people who published the letter but because of association with former Atheists who have become Biblical Creationists - one of whom posts here.

Sam Drucker

Brian said...

Thanks Sam,
Does the article include the full name of Justin S. and any contact details for him?
Brian

sam drucker said...

Brian, what I published is all that was contained within the CMI Extra article. All that I have seen of published letters (or axtracts) received by the CMI people for similar purposes of Justin S. have carried only portion of the person's name for privacy reasons.

Leave it with me and I'll try to get some more information for you but I caustion that it is not something I have any say about. It was just an article I chose to give air to.

Sam Drucker

John said...

Peter said: "The fake letter attacks subjective meaning atheists have."

Can't come to push myself to take you seriously.

And a female god? Had any personal meetings with her lately?

Peter said...

Sam,

Your subjective anecdotal evidence is objectively correct. Atheists "want" justifying their position ignoring all the evidence.


Brian,

Justin S. is a fictional character so you need to contact him on a supernatural level. Sam's testimony and personal experience will not produce any actual facts, but CMI will produce a follow up article to strengthen your faith and to provide comfort in the minds of believers. More personal testimonies and eye witness reports will soon appear followed by a creed confirming the existence of Justin S.


John,

You need to read the letter what it says about atheists and "subjective meaning".

It puzzles me why people who address God with a gender related title find it unbelievable that life giving God is actually female. Her love is written in our hearts after all. May She bless you with wisdom and understanding. One day you will follow the path to Her.

sam drucker said...

Well, nothing constructive there!

Sam Drucker

Brian said...

Hi Sam
While we may prefer that Peter put it differently, perhaps he has good reason to be sceptical about such testimonials - we know there is not a little ‘pious fraud’ circulating on these matters. The internet is full of such stories of conversion, most of which do not allow any independent verification of their veracity.

Of course, this is also the case with sites which have testimonials of those who have abandoned Christianity. Recovering Fundamentalists and ExChristian.net are cases in point where many of the claims are not verifiable. Though the former does often publish full names and city of residence and the latter does have some testimonials where people link to their Facebook page or the like. Perhaps, to be careful, we should treat all such claims with suspicion until they are independently confirmed.
Brian

sam drucker said...

Brian, thanks. I am still pursuing information to ease the concern.

Sam Drucker

sam drucker said...

Brian, it will take a couple of days because I have just learned the person who can help me is away overseas. I won't let it go.

Sam Drucker

Brian said...

Thanks, Sam.

Peter said...

Brian,

I like your critical thinking. You are also right in doubting some ex-Christian testimonies...

Google youtube:
"Story Time With Damon Thompson - Rewriting the Genetic Code"
Don't worry about the claim that someone's (like Justin S.) DNA got rewritten when they got saved but notice the massive audience in trance swallowing this claim. This is how incredible stories are made up.

Google youtube:
"28th dead raised Todd Bentley"
Don't worry about the claim that 28+ people were raise from dead, but notice the massive audience in trance swallowing this claim. People who believe this without checking the evidence will never question Justin S. story nor bother to question it. And we know how the Lakeland Revival ended..

Notice also how Sam is already convinced that Justin S. is real before he does does any checking, just like masses of Damon Thompson and Todd Bentley. If one is convinced that something is true, one tends to find evidence to support it.

And honestly do you think there is any chance that people spreading this story (who Sam contacted) would ever say that Justin S. is a hoax? To get the truth you need to do your own homework. If you get Justin's details go interview him and the people who know Justin before and after his conversion. News media checked Todd Bentley's claims and guess what happened...

Ask yourself: Why has this story been around for two years and still no Justin S.?

sam drucker said...

When you have dealings with people from time to time you work out when you can trust them.

That was the reason for posting the article.

My inquiry is not for my purposes but for Brian.

I have met enough former Atheists who have become Christian to know that it can and does happen.

Because Peter is determined to remain an Atheist is no basis for doubting others can and do rise above it.

Sam Drucker

sam drucker said...

Brian, in light of Peter's comment: "If you get Justin's details go interview him and the people who know Justin before and after his conversion" I have had second thoughts about seeking more details about Justin S.

A fellow I don't know, writing to a Christian organization thanking them for their ministry and commenting on how he came from atheism to Christ potentially being given the third degree from doubters is unsatisfactory to my conscience.

Brian, I don't know you and what you might do with personal information about Justin S. but I have strong suspicion of what Peter would do if he got hold of the details.

I have just sent the following email to CMI and for privacy purposes I have x'd out the names of the people involved with my initial inquiry about Justin S.

xxxxxxxx,

I have had second thoughts. Tell xxxx not to worry about it. His time is better occupied with the demands of his work than to have to justify a testimony published on a small blogspot that has been questioned by one and maybe two Atheists.

Tell xxxx to let it go.

There is another dimension to it as well. It seems the only way one of these guys in particular will be satisfied is if he had the full name of Justin S. and his whereabouts so he can contact him, question him and harrass him. That is not the outcome Justin S. deserves for having simply sent a letter of thanks to CMI and commented on his background.

It is far better if I deal with it by saying that I trust CMI to have published a genuine letter from a former Atheist and that is that.

xxxxxxxx, please tell xxxx to forget about my initial inquiry. I'll handle the matter myself
.

Sorry Brian, I trust the people who originally published the letter from Justin S. because in every test i have given them they have proved trustworthy. For the sake of Justin S.' privacy I won't get his details.

If readers don't trust the letter then that is a problem they will have to wrestle with themselves. I published it in good faith and earnestly believe it is genuine.

If you are Christian I am confident you will understand my concern for the welfare of Justin S.

Sam Drucker

John said...

Peter,

Similarly one should not believe former Christians who now say they've become atheists. There are many such "testimonies" out there.

I think the best conclusion is that they are really atheists pretending to be former Christians.

sam drucker said...

Just to close the issue I provide hereunder the response to my last email received from CMI.

I think xxxx will be relieved - he is indeed busy [in Singapore] and it would be good to head off any persecution of Justin S. It is a genuine letter or it would not have been published and we would have the original address etc. but we would NEVER disclose those details to anyone without the permission of the person quoted.

Unless a person wants to be wilfully ignorant the letter from Justin S. ought to be accepted as genuine.

Sam Drucker

Peter said...

Gullibility - Noun

1.- tendency to believe too readily and therefore to be easily deceived
2.- believing in anonymous personal testimonies presented in Internet by third party organisation dedicated to further a religion or an ideology at any cost.
3.- believing in any argument which has "unless a person wants to be wilfully ignorant XXXX ought to be accepted as genuine" instead of evidence.

John said...

Chutzpah - Noun

1. unbelievable gall; insolence; audacity, as in "atheists have the chutzpah to believe they are never conned, can spot a flim-flam a mile away, that Christians, especially, are the most easily taken in victims and have no commonsense, believing anything that is fed them, yet atheists who believe NOTHING, 13.462839 billion years ago, exploded, and eventually through raw, undirected chance chemistry and lots of other explosions and collisions, produced humunguous amounts of genetic information, coding and complex cerebral cortexes and the like that allowed one atheist, called Peter to write that Christians are fools and suckers believing with full self-confidence that they are the real deal perspicacious chaps who are never ever conned."

John said...

Peter et al,

Here's a testimony by a guy, including his picture. Feel free to ask him something, anything, to see if it's real and he's a real person.

http://creation.com/jim-mason-nuclear-physicist