Here’s how it played itself out, according to Rob’s recent article in Southern Cross.
Rob is piqued at a documentary maker’s advertisement for virgins and their being paid $20,000 to auction their chastity. Rob appears on radio. The next day the filmmaker telephones Rob and arranges a meeting. The maker wants Rob to appear in his doco. Rob, putting Disconnect 09 principles into action, can’t let such an opportunity slip away and agrees. Rob provides the camera with reasons why he’s a Christian, namely, Jesus rose from the dead. And what was the filmmaker’s response? He wanted to know where he could find God now and that the historical Jesus was irrelevant to his life, now.
Totally unsurprising!
Rob doesn’t record what he said next but he does say that he “probably fluffed” the answer. Again, totally unsurprising given that Rob really doesn’t believe in the miraculous:
(i) He’s on record as being completely incredulous that the parting of the Red Sea was a miracle
(ii) He doesn’t believe that God miraculously created the heavens and the earth
(iii) He believes that God used secondary principles to create and not his Son.
(iv) He believes that death is natural
(v) He believes that death is God’s preferred method of creation
(vi) He believes that time and chance are the means by which things happen in nature
(vii) He doesn’t believe that God used wisdom in the creation
(viii) He believes that God incorporated errors into the creation from the beginning
(ix) He believes that secular science should interpret the Bible
(x) He doesn’t really take God at his word and prefers to make his own story up about how God did it, even mocking those who trust God and take his word as it is.
(xi) Rob parts company with all theologians prior to Darwin on origins, including Paul and the earliest of Christians, preferring to align himself with men like Spong and Dawkins.
It may interest you, Rob, what Jesus had to say. Jesus said that Moses wrote of him, the Creator (you at least in theory do believe Jesus is the Creator, don’t you, Rob?), and stated,
“If you do not believe Moses’ writings, how will you believe my words?” (John 5:47)
and,
“If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.” (Luke 16:31)
Rob, the filmmaker wanted to know what evidence there is now for God. It’s quite easy. The miraculous evidence is all around you:
“God, who made the world and everything in it…From the creation of the world his invisible attributes are CLEARLY SEEN, being UNDERSTOOD by the things which are made.” (Act 17:24 & Romans 1:20)
But what did our good bishop do instead? He gave him a copy of Tim Keller’s The Reason for God. Keller is another pseudo-Christian in a long line of wolves who believe that Exodus 20:8-11 and 31:12-18 is some form of poetic allegorical myth and that God uses death, pain, suffering and imperceptible change to create, if one can aptly even call it that.
Rob, if you paid more attention to your Bible and what Jesus and Moses said you may not have “fluffed” the answer.
‘And Jesus spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak to the children of Israel, saying: ‘My Sabbaths are a sign between me and you forever…because in 6 days YHWH made the heavens and the earth.” And when Jesus had made an end of speaking with Moses, he gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of Jesus.’
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6 comments:
John, well spotted! Our bishop friend seems to not understand that when God saves, he saves in terms of the creation that has become undone, not in terms of some imaginary theological world that doesn't cut across the world we live in!
But the funniest thing is that it comes to the time when he can really deliver on his profession, and he muffs it. Sheesh!! What else is a bishop for, if he can't help people to discipleship (of the God who didn't quite create, in his terms). Its like an ambulance driver finally getting the call to an accident and he forgets how to start the ignition!
Rob, time for another job?
There is something seriously, seriously wrong with the health of the Diocese and it starts at the top.
At least the Jews of whom our Lord was critical (Matt. 23:15) had the capacity to go out and bear testament to what they believed.
No capacity at the head of the Diocese suggests death to Connect 09.
Neil
I am no longer amazed by what supposed Christians believe.
In Forsyth's case I am reminded of Jesus' comments in John 3:12 where He asks; If you don't believe what I say about earthly things how will you believe what I say about heavenly things! Speaking of earthly things Jesus said man was made at the beginning of the creation, that in which we live. Now obviously if you believe, as Scripture clearly says, that man was made on day 6, then Jesus' comments make sense. After all He was speaking about 1,460,000 days after creation week so day 6 out of 1,460,000 is at the beginning.
If your ultimate authority is man, not God, and you believe in the imagined billions of years then man actually appeared almost at the end of the creation. The opposite of what the Creator wrote! Was Jesus wrong or was He lying?
How can people still claim to be Christian while rejecting what God says about creation? Isn't a Christian a person who submits to Jesus 'Our great God and Saviour' Titus 2:13?
I can just see these 'Christians' on judgement day, or is that judgement billion years? Jesus says why did you reject my word? Well, they reply you see we ah noticed that Genesis has a certain genre...' Jesus replies- But I believe it is historical truth and I told you so.
Yes we know that but you see the scientists...
Jesus asks- Were they there? Did I not tell you that it is by faith you understand the world was created, and that which is not of faith is sin? Get out of my sight!
But but I was a Bishop! I say unto you how sad when the sheep are led by blind guides!
I think the story is just as Eric said: maybe Forsythe has his 'theology' world, where he thinks about God, Christ, sin and salvation, and his 'real' world, where he thinks Dawkins is right! After all, if you don't get your 'real' world info from the Bible, from, let's see...God, who created and so set up the whole box and dice, then you've got to get it from somewhere else, so why not Dawkins, who really stands for materialism capital M. Then Forsyth's worlds line up; or not, depending on what you think of the cross over between the two.
But then, one's got to be imaginary. I wonder which one?
Ham captures it this way:
"In our modern time, the church now is represented as totally enclosed in a bubble. The church has adopted/sanctioned the secular accounts of history, but still tries to cling to the spiritual and moral aspects of Christianity. But this bubble, with its morality and message of salvation, cannot exist inside this secular framework"
And then:
"...the church in its bubble is really outside this framework of secular history, teaching these Bible stories as disconnected from real history. Now all those who are inside the secular framework of history have begun (consciously or unconsciously) to conclude that what the church teaches must be just opinions or stories—not absolute truth, as none of it is ultimately connected to real history."
The pictures help.
http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v25/i3/bubble.asp
Perhaps the Bishop could have "connected" better, with a more consistent worldview? Sadly I could probably say the same of many of my fellow Anglicans?
Duane, nicely put. I'll have a look as you suggest.
I think this hits the nail on the head. The church has separated history from history; and pushed theology off the planet; when the creation account tells us that theology is very much on the planet and involved with people, not restricted to 'ideas' and words that just clatter around other people's ears.
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