I have been following with interest the comments you guys have made about the readiness (or lack of it) of the Anglican Church in Sydney to tackle the challenge of Connect 09. I thought I would pass on my little Sydney experience of late which perhaps throws some light on your views.
As I entered the festival site I soon encountered a stall with a bold sign "FACE PAINTING" a volunteer stepped away from the stall and into my path. She didn't have much to say, just, "Would you like a free sample bag!" With that she thrust at my hand a brown paper bag with string handles. I took delivery of the bag and kept walking. As I walked I noticed a sign on the side of the bag indicating it was the gift of combined local churches.
Heading the list was the Anglican Church, followed by Baptist, Catholic, Community, Uniting and what I suspect was a Charismatic Church.
I had other things to look at so I didn't peer into the bag until I got home. When home I began to open the bag to find out how the local churches, particularly the Anglican Church, was striving to introduce the community to God the Creator of the world, God in Flesh, God the triumphant Saviour, God the Lord of the New Creation.
My hand entered the bag and one after the other it brought forth the following items:
1) A colour brochure promoting World Youth Day 2008 and inviting me to billet an international pilgrim to the event.
2) A small bundle of A4 size sheets covered with black print-on-white word puzzles; cross-word puzzles; colour-in diagrams with biblical messages, one with the words "How to Be Saved" (saved from what, the common person might ask?) followed by the Acts 16:31 quote "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved."
3) A small pack of potato chips.
4) Something stocky but heavy, wait, what is it? aaah ... a small tetra-brick pack of Orange Juice.
5) A card promoting World Youth Day 2008 with an encouragement of "Peace - Our Future."
6) A card promoting the local Baptist Church and advising what programmes it offers.
7) A small lollipop
8) A bookmark promoting the local churches.
9) Another small lollipop.
10) A balloon (deflated of course)
11) A small plastic ring with a smiley face and the words "Jesus Loves You" Oh! and the name of the manufacturer of the ring and the year of manufacture.
There you have it! You guys have questioned the readiness of the church, particularly the Sydney Anglican Church, to take on a mission to the lost in the Name of Jesus Christ. I can sympathise with your reservations. The Church is not really engaging with the lost by just offering them trinkets and face painting.
As one of you suggested, this is not the church triumphant.
Gwen
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Gwen,
Your experiences are exactly like mine. I've attended upteen zillion festivals and if...I say..IF the Sydney Anglos turn up, and boy oh boy it's a rare event if they do nowadays, they believe their spreading of the Good News is balloons, face painting or an invite to carols.
As I pointed out previousl by, I was passing by St Andrews and the Mormons were there proslytising but no Angos.
Man oh man! Cutting edge evangelism out in the open! Are they for real? I just could not believe that a group of rational adults could conceive that a show bag of trinkets could influence people for the gospel.
Meanwhile people are dropping like flies without Christ left, right and centre.
Maybe the church has forgotten its mission; its REAL mission and thinks its an offshoot of a 1950s circus side show.
The trouble with slogan centric programs is that they go out of date...in about a year in this case. What will 2010 bring? "Do it again in 2010"
Another trouble is they either ignore that there is a systematic problem to be addressed, or they recognise it in a half hearted manner but think that bluster and bluff will create relevant change. Set up for failure, of course.
First dear Pete (he of the naff video extolling Connect09: catch it at your local Anglican church), find the problem, then find out what's causing it, then fix what's causing it by changing the system creating the problem. If there is a systematic problem (Anglican church out of touch with the concerns and modes of the general community) then a sloganeered year's effort will achieve nothing; instead change the way the church operates to engage with the local community, if there is one.
The word 'community' is bandied about today as though it has real meaning. In most suburbs of large cities, there is no community; they are largely dormitories, or child centred congregations of interest (that is, kids at Saturday soccer, etc.).
The closest to community is the (public) school. Perhaps start there with existing contacts.
Other places where people 'surface' are in places or times of stress or need: nursing homes, hospitals, as new parents, parents will sick or disabled children, parents wanting help on raising and educating their children...there's a rich seam of opportunity here that few churches really tap.
Christmas is a great time of failure for local churches. Attendances are typically 'up', but what is done to capitalise on this major exposure: what business would pass up such a tremendous opportunity to build bridges with potential customers... churches usually let it go with a carols service, and that's about it. Heads firmly back in sand the day after.
Of course, at public street fairs and festivals, the way is open to deal with real questions, or at least ensure that people know this is the church's serious interest... not face painting, for heaven's sake!!
I think festivals and markets are a good evangelism venue because people are browsing, casual and open to communication, so long as you have the means to engage. Door-knocking is not as good because most times you are interrupting something they are doing and they are not of a mind to engage.
When Europeans of earlier days attempted to relate to indigenous people in newly discovered lands they used trinkets but in so doing they devalued the people they were trying to relate to.
I had a slightly different but similarly disappointing experience to Gwen at a festival of late. I certainly didn't see any Episcopalians present. All I could see were a couple of people in the parade dressed as clowns carrying a sign something like "Jesus Loves You", another group of pentecostal types on a float with 'musicians' playing such loud 'music' that they drowned out the voice of the lead singer who was gyrating in front of a microphone with an anguished look on his face, then in an allocated area for stalls etc there was a man with a partial clowns outfit selling bird whistles and waving a streamer in the air. He indicated he was a Christian and his junior colleagues were doing child face painting. Finally, there was a stall set up by a group who had ample volunteers and their banner proclaimed Jesus Christ but most of the banner contained testimonies of people who had rejoiced in receiving the Holy Spirit and now being able to speak in tongues. A leaflet forced into my hand with the utterance "Have a good day" contained the lead statement "Speaking In Tongues".
So this was how this obviously pentecostal group was attempting to reach the lost.
As a test I went up to one volunteer who seem to be the lead person and said "Science has disproved the Bible hasn't it?" He said "No, science is with the Bible." I then said "But the Bible suggests the world is only about 6,000 years old." To which he replied "The Bible talks about creation over six long periods of time and that the word 'Yom' can mean long periods of time."
I reponded with the problem of failure of vegetation to propagate without polination by birds and insects if creation of vegetation and birds/insects were separated by long periods of time. To this he was lost and uttered some vague excuse about God overcoming the problem. He tried to steer the conversation to his personal experience of receiving the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues. I wouldn't let him do that and brought him back to the use of the word 'Yom' and that in all but two instances of ordinals in Hebrew that the word accompanied by numbers and ordinals speaks of a specific period of time. He attempted to deny that this was true but I wouldn't let him get away with it and he then attempted to go back to his testimony of Holy Spirit/speaking in tongues.
I 'fessed up' and told him I was testing him and said that I was a Christian. He questioned my faith because I declared that I did not speak in tongues. Debate over this was going nowhere so I politely excused myself. So much for the capacity of people who claim to represent Jesus Christ yet distort His Word.
Sam
So much of the church tries various schemes, instead of preaching our Creator Jesus Christ and His crufixion and Resurrection, which was enough for Paul.
Thanks for your article. Sadly, it is full of generalizations, pejorative language and assumptions.
I am glad you went along to this event, but desire that you cease the unwarranted generalizations that all sydang people act in the same way, that all churches use the same 'methods', and that 'collecting the elect' is to be done in exactly the same way all of the time.
Plus do you even know that the person you met even came from the local 'Anglican Church' anyway? (perhaps they were that Baptist or Uniting church 'Heretic' you guys speak of), perhaps the Anglicans were all in conversations with people from their local communities as you would like? But surely not, we are Anglican after all!! (And all a caricature of a certain stereotype!)
And can I have the lollipop?
The Uniting Church is basically the Green party at prayer. It's been a long time since it was Christian. Of course, it abandoned biblical creation long ago, so it's also not surprising that they have abandoned marriage as a man and a woman as taught in the creation narrative. More recently, a Uniting minister has proclaimed that Australian taxpayers should fund pre-natal baby butchery overseas.
Hey, Steve,
As I said, I've been to at least a hundred festivals and, as I said, IF - let me repeat - IF an Anglican Church turns up, you inevitably get face-painting, balloons and lollies. Have you ever checked out these festivals or are you just knee-jerking because your precious Sydney Diocese is being attacked?
The biggest two festivals in Sydney are Surry Hills and Newtown. No church appearances have been noted for at least the last 3 years. Plenty of Scientologists, Hindus, Communists, Greens, Laughing Party....but no Christians and certainly no Anglicans. I do recall a local Anglican church from Albion St turning up to a Surry Hills festival 5 years ago. There outreach? Little bottles of water.
So, let me ask again: How many festivals have you attended in the last 15 years, Steve?
Precious Sydney Diocese? Let me get the kleenex. I could care less about it. It is a man made institution, and I happen to think its a good one from which to launch the mission of God.
As for festivals, what would be good evangelism to you? Obviously there is some prescriptive way of doing it for you, so...
I have:
Had a gospel chat with a guy during a Deftones set at the Big Day out
Have had a gospel conversation with a guy after he presumed I was a dealer of acid, and I assured him that I was not.
Have played the helper of God in the conversion of a semi-enebriated guy at a local festival in the Shire.
(Not to big note myself, just to enter the conversation with an ounce of prescribed S.A.H. cred)
Presumably, though, this doesnt fit your wanted stereotype.
Oh, and by the way, I have also evangelised a couple, who became Christians, and are now involved in Christian mission themselves, you know how? Through serving them at a festival, which they would not have come to at all if it werent for the methods of which you deride!
You wouldnt be limiting God in his methods of evangelism would you?
By the way, is every Christian in your congregations equipped to share the gospel with a Nihilistic person from the inner city? Perhaps they are not? Then why not have them serve in a way that can help the mission of the church? Without my face painters, I dont meet my friends who become Christians through my ministry under the hand of God. This is the sovereign hand of God too is it not? ANd surely you wouldnt want to say that the little 70 year old face painter is not a faithful saint would you? Much less a heretic!
My agenda is not to stop criticism of badly done mission (which, as has been mentioned in the article, can happen in any denomination, even the other heretical ones like the independants!! - and believe me, happens in the sydang diocese as well, no sacred cows there), critique all you want. Just dont generalise that they are all like that.
Throw out generalisations, and I will be more sympathetic to your critique, though, I must say, the title of the blog doesnt lend itself to that does it? One whopper of a generalisation!
Oh, my Steve, hit a raw nerve have we?
Yes, face painting, balloons and lolly pops. I think that was Paul's approach in Acts chapter 56 verse 3 wasn't it? I better give up on Paul's example and follow Connect '09.
So what was Paul's take on things? Wasn't it something like "And daily he would reason with people in the market place."
Once again, another Anglican evades the point.
So where are all the Anglican evangelical stands at the festivals I mentioned?
As I've mentioned elsewhere, don't you think that it is a little on the strange side that you often see Mormons and Scientologists "evangelising" outside St Andrews, but never any Anglicans? Come on Steve, buddy, just a tad odd, given that the Syd Diocese calls itself the evangelical of evangelicals.
As one very well-known minister told me recently, "We really aren't seeing the conversions or growth rates. And we really aren't getting out to really meet the people." Now this was from one of Sydney's really well-known evangelicals.
BTW, what is the Gospel to you ol' son?
John,
re-read my post, I am more on board with you than you think, just read it again.
As I have said, I DID engage with that family in that marketplace which was created by our church, and GOD SAVED THEM. Or did you not read that part.
My issue is your sweeping generalizations. It seems to me more like you are evading my question of your sweeping generalizations.
But of course that is the evasion which goes on HERE all the time too isn't it?
The raw nerve is not about the 'precious diocese' but your inability to answer my query..
Try again. (Without selective reading)
I have to take my kid out and I will respond later on but I want to say here that there seems to be another aspect to Syd Diocese crowd that irks me and others. Whenever you put your hand on with an olive branch, in the other there is a club. Try tossing the club away will you?!
Us evasive! Pot calling the kettle black, mate! Not once, not once has any Anglo anywhere actually given one biblical text that unequivocally supports a long-age view and/or evolutionary understanding. Now that's evasive.
I didnt realise this thread was about evolution/creation. I thought it was on evangelism.
Thats not evasive, I have never chosen to engage you on such topics.
Maybe its a one size fits all doctrine? Anyway, have a good day.
Steve,
For being bold enough to ask I am prepared to give you both lollipops. Just provide your address and they will be posted to you free of cost. Don't get too excited though, they aren't big.
As to generalisations, well I am only citing my experience which, although limited, seems to be consistent with other views stated earlier by other commentators.
Gwen
Thanks Gwen, I appreciate your honesty, and would like to also state by equal experience of the opposite.
As I have said though, bad evangelism is done all over the place all of the time. Syndneyanglicans also do it poorly, at many churches. This does sound like a poor example to me.
Thanks for your explanation and time
Now we've gotten into a debate about generalization!! Come on Steve, with the realities of blogging, filtered genrealisations is about all you can get.
On another comment in this long blog the detail of an anglican church at a Glebe markets day was given: exactly the same methods as Gwen encountered and zero engagement with people!
Sure not all Anglican churches might be like this... but to turn the tables, let us in on the effective approaches used and we'll be able to consider them in our parishes.
As to the 'dear ol' SAD'; we don't want to 'rescue' a man made organisation, but the sheer evangelical convenience of having the scores of Anglican parishes proclaiming the gospel and teaching the word of God is too got a strategic capability to pass up for the sake of the kingdom.
Steve, I have observed festivals and church attempts to evangelise at some of these.
To my regret I was even involved earlier on with an outreach exercise with child face painting. It didn't work and my observation of other churches doing the same seems to be nearly all miss with little hit.
We have to get a lot smarter we have the words of life but no-one wants to talk to us, let alone listen.
Sam
Then, on the other hand, if you're after making contact with chln, then face painting is the thing. Only a follow up mechanism is needed. I think that's one thing that many churches do poorly. I've got no great answers, but when I worked in marketing many years ago, we devised strategies that could end up in sales, not just with the (dubious) attraction of a product launch.
The way churches handle (not) the big influx at Easter and Christmas also begs for some good work to be done, to make these more public festivals time to make opportunities for deeper contact.
Well said Eric,
basically, everything is an opportunity, everything is a chance to contact people, but it is the next step that is vitally important. And i agree that this is the area where it is poorly done in many types of churches.
Also, in different areas, different approaches are often needed. contacting children and following them up can be more helpful in more 'family oriented areas', like the western suburbs, and campbelltown etc, where as, in the inner city, doing alternative festivals as you mention must be the impact place.
if they are not there for these events, no matter what type of Christians they are, it is surely a lost opportunity.
I agree that contact for contacts sake is more or less useless for while the community may have a good impression of the church who gives things away, they will not have a clue what we stand for, nor will they find any need to come and hear about Jesus, becasue the things they have experienced at the 'festival' is nothing more than they can get at the easter show, local fair etc etc.
Contact (or if you like 'connection') is fine, it is the next step that is vital. This is my experience in evangelism of this type, as shown in my previous posts.
Steve,
I know that people aren't built and operate according to some Skinnerian principle, but what do you think are the most important HIGHER issues to people. (Let's leave tax minimisation out of it!)
I think I get your drift John...people can pretty easily 'cut to the chase' once the lid is lifted on the 'quiet desperation' in which we all live, but for Christ. QD is a result of lack of knowledge: particularly if people deep down think they should believe that they are modified pond scum (as materialism...evolution would have us believe), but prominently a lack of Christ. The path to Christ is paved with discussion, as Paul did in Tyrannus' hall; getting people to the depth is the knack that most churches (most of us, I dare say) do not have, or have lost.
At some level, we all think about life, and wonder at its end (purpose), if we are adrift...we wonder why we are adrift...Its a real pity that the church does not really string the beads together at this level, but leaves things to journalists to drivel on in the weekend papers with no solution. Too often we (the church) really do hide it under a bushel.
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