tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7649826198961930411.post5273220787425418527..comments2023-11-02T22:17:59.419+11:00Comments on Sydney Anglican Heretics: Sleeping with the atheistsErichttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04827951993182450846noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7649826198961930411.post-39493741779983460032008-10-27T08:02:00.000+11:002008-10-27T08:02:00.000+11:00Phil,What do you make of the following words from ...Phil,<BR/><BR/>What do you make of the following words from Paul? Do you think they have any truth and reality today or was he merely talking to a past group and thus his letter is of no relevance? The following is taken from 1 Corinthians 2:<BR/> "But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.<BR/> These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. For “who has known the mind of the LORD that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ."Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17496161581317710863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7649826198961930411.post-31422739286964578282008-10-26T21:32:00.000+11:002008-10-26T21:32:00.000+11:00Phil, thanks for the insight into the thinking tha...Phil, thanks for the insight into the thinking that guides you to where you stand on the mind of God.<BR/><BR/>I, at least, but I suspect most others here, have seen disparity in the range of beliefs. I came to a mind that if God is the author of truth and communication then a multitude of conflicting beliefs, as represented by the world's religions, have not come from the one mind. <BR/><BR/>The need for me was to test the beliefs to ascertain which best fits the world as I see it and as history has recorded it.<BR/><BR/>This led me to believe the integrity of the Bible and accept that its stream of concordance from so many different contributors/authors over centuries had to be inspired by one who is "I AM".<BR/><BR/>I continually see the Bible holding up in all fields of science and literature.<BR/><BR/>Those who killed or inflicted hardships as alleged Christians were just not acting as the Lord Jesus Christ would have had them act (I exclude here acts of self defence). I just don't see their actions as being consistent with the revelation of Him as demonstrated in Person and in Scripture.<BR/><BR/>Scripture does make it clear there are things of the mind of God that we can know but not exhaustively now.<BR/><BR/>I suspect if you give equal credit to conflicting assertions of the mind of God you must devolve to a belief that you can't know the mind of God.<BR/><BR/>Neilneil moorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04381046852732380906noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7649826198961930411.post-4124024189913179922008-10-26T07:33:00.000+11:002008-10-26T07:33:00.000+11:00John,I don't believe I regard myself as Christian ...John,<BR/><BR/>I don't believe I regard myself as Christian as you regard yourself as a Christian.<BR/><BR/>Jews, Christians, Muslims, Socratic Philosophers, readers of Confucius, and Buddhists, all seem (to me) to be moving in the same direction: To know God's Will. But because we can't, we have many answers, and therefore, many different displays of what God wants - some very different from others. What I am suggesting, is that it would be better if we, sinners, realised that we are not without error in thought, belief, and judgement.<BR/><BR/>I have no authority to say that Christians do not know the mind of God, but if we are all equal there is no authority, but God being the ultimate authority, who am I, or any of my other sinning-human-equals, to say that they know Him better than others?<BR/><BR/>I said it before, positions like yours seem (and I do say 'seem') anti-intellectual to me. Christians have always 'known' the mind of God. This was why they persecuted homosexuals, native Africans, women, and wared and killed in the name of God. How dare they. How dare they think they knew that this was God's will.<BR/><BR/>Have faith that God as saved your soul, and leave it at that.<BR/><BR/>'As the hart panteth after the water brooks.' [Psalm 42]. If you've drunk your fill, that is, if you've found God, then your mind should be at peace. Let others find God for themselves, and those who have found God, stop pretending to know his thoughts and accept that you are equipped with larynx and a soul. Lisetn to your thoughts,a nd remeber they are YOUR thoughts.Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06016790525539198927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7649826198961930411.post-61922734273997178282008-10-25T17:12:00.000+11:002008-10-25T17:12:00.000+11:00Phil,On whose authority do you say that Christians...Phil,<BR/><BR/>On whose authority do you say that Christians do not have access to the mind of God?Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17496161581317710863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7649826198961930411.post-65324320908725618692008-10-25T16:44:00.000+11:002008-10-25T16:44:00.000+11:00Phil,1. Do you regard yourself as a Christian?2. S...Phil,<BR/><BR/>1. Do you regard yourself as a Christian?<BR/><BR/>2. So, in terms of relationship to God, a Muslim and a Christian are on exactly the same ground??Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17496161581317710863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7649826198961930411.post-8378716173748541252008-10-24T16:40:00.000+11:002008-10-24T16:40:00.000+11:00... sorry John, that should read 'ideas' not 'idas...... sorry John, that should read 'ideas' not 'idas'.Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06016790525539198927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7649826198961930411.post-16904354275294571602008-10-24T16:38:00.000+11:002008-10-24T16:38:00.000+11:00John, I agree with the Muslims. We don't have acce...John, I agree with the Muslims. We don't have access to the mind of God. We have the thought of many prophets, and those thoughts come to us in the form of words, and words are (as Hamlet says) 'words, words, words', words are nothing to reality, and naturally all this is nothing compared to the Almighty. How can you seriously think that YOU know the mind of God! Are you suggesteing that you, like God, are omniscient? It is anti-intellectual idas that give Christianity such a bad name - come on, have some faith.Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06016790525539198927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7649826198961930411.post-18267020120272629072008-10-20T17:53:00.000+11:002008-10-20T17:53:00.000+11:00Or for that matter..where are you Phil?Or for that matter..where are you Phil?Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17496161581317710863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7649826198961930411.post-47186835853420259382008-10-19T20:44:00.000+11:002008-10-19T20:44:00.000+11:00Healy, where are you?NeilHealy, where are you?<BR/><BR/>Neilneil moorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04381046852732380906noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7649826198961930411.post-89858117318239495152008-10-15T07:54:00.000+11:002008-10-15T07:54:00.000+11:00Phil said: "Not that I want to imagine the mind of...Phil said: "Not that I want to imagine the mind of God, I can think of nothing more blasphemous."<BR/><BR/>Phil, I remember debating at London's Speakers' Corner many Sundays ago. There were 500 Muslims surrounding me and I said that one big difference between our two religions is that through Christ Christians have access to God's mind. They labelled this blasphemous.<BR/><BR/>Now, Christ died for us so that we, with him, are able to call God, Abba. Paul also says that we now have the mind of Christ. In a relationship one grows in knowledge of the other person. I would say that it it actually blasphemous for a Christian to say that we DON'T know God's mind (though obviously not exhaustively!). <BR/><BR/>As God said through Isaiah, "Come now, let us reason together." That is, let my mind and yours engage. That's what fathers and sons do quite naturally!Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17496161581317710863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7649826198961930411.post-5571358911918307372008-10-15T07:41:00.000+11:002008-10-15T07:41:00.000+11:00Healy said: "Maybe part of [God's]plan WAS to allo...Healy said: "Maybe part of [God's]plan WAS to allow sentient species to arise naturally."<BR/><BR/>By 'naturally' I suppose you mean zillions and zillions and zillions etc etc of chance chemical accidents which by chance, over and over again, threw up not only the requisite optical purity (which is against "natural" law anyway!), but also somehow, again and again and again..."created" out of nothing the huge amounts of novel, complex biological information that life requires, all the time this "God" not actually doing anything but allowing chance to "do" everything.<BR/><BR/>Healy, not even the real God could accomplish that!Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17496161581317710863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7649826198961930411.post-71734255625125699432008-10-12T20:01:00.000+11:002008-10-12T20:01:00.000+11:00Phil, we are seeing things differently. The inquir...Phil, we are seeing things differently. <BR/><BR/>The inquirer asking you for the taste of a lemon is in a different position to a person being able to find out about the nature and intention of God for himself because God has communicated things of Himself in the biblical record, even in the creation (Rom.8:18-20). The taste of a lemon can only be understood by the person who takes of the lemon. The Apostle Paul makes it clear to the church in Rome that mankind can know something of God without taking of Him. <BR/><BR/>Further, the Lord Jesus Christ expressed disappointment that his disciples were not able to understand the will of God concerning what is clean and unclean (Mark 7:1-23).<BR/><BR/>I grant you there are many things about the nature and intention of God that we don't know but there are others that we can know and, some of which, we are expected to know. The latter is particularly so for those having faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.<BR/><BR/>Finally, God has made it abundantly clear how He has and will deal with man's rebellion against Him and He has called on believers to make this known to the world.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, let's not get hung up on this because I'm not sure we are dealing with Healy's original proposition.<BR/><BR/>Neilneil moorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04381046852732380906noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7649826198961930411.post-9098039109101494712008-10-12T18:58:00.000+11:002008-10-12T18:58:00.000+11:00PS Sorry, that should read 'I don't want' not 'wha...PS Sorry, that should read 'I don't want' not 'what'.Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06016790525539198927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7649826198961930411.post-65571516259957931932008-10-12T18:56:00.000+11:002008-10-12T18:56:00.000+11:00Neil, if someone, who had never tasted a lemon, as...Neil, if someone, who had never tasted a lemon, asked: “What does a lemon taste like?” And I answered: “Sour”. And then they asked: “What does sour taste like?” The best I could answer is: “The opposite of sweet”. My answer is hardly a description of sour. The person needs to bite into a lemon, only then will they know sour – they will have all the evidence of sour they need. Prior to biting the lemon it would appear to be beyond their knowledge. God is more than a lemon, and it is rare that God says anything that is clear on His ultimate plan for the universe and all that it contains, how could He? It would be like teaching a jelly-fish how to spell; it is simply beyond its natural ability. Just as it is someone to imagine sour without having experienced sour. Just as it is beyond our natural ability to grasp God’s reasoning for us in his universe. We might as well ask God: Why a universe rather than nothing? Could we understand the alternative? I don’t think so.<BR/><BR/>But for those of us with faith don’t look for evidence, we naturally have doubt to test our faith, but it is the doubt that reinforces our faith. All we need to keep in account are the ‘sketchy’ (and I use this word in all goodness) writings and translations of the many who have assembled thoughts that approach goodness. Because, regardless of anything else: “ … the wages of sin is death" (Romans 6:23) and not even the most Bible reading, church attending, and preaching Christian will escape death, and “ … all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23). ‘all’ seems pretty clear, but who knows? I don’t what to speak for the Almighty, I wouldn’t dare.Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06016790525539198927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7649826198961930411.post-19591651806818550832008-10-11T23:21:00.000+11:002008-10-11T23:21:00.000+11:00Phil, I have some sympathy for what you say but wh...Phil, I have some sympathy for what you say but when God says certain things that are clear then we can understand the mind of God on those things. Indeed, I think God expects us to grasp that an act on it.<BR/><BR/>I presume your comment arises from my saying that it was God's intention that we were to live in mutual grace relationships from the beginning.<BR/><BR/>I cannot help but observe the activity of the three Persons of the Godhead seeking the glory of the other. I cannot help but see the Lord Jesus Christ saying that mutual grace relationships are the order for life when asked to identify the greatest commandment (Matt. 22:34-40). Further, the Beatitudes are full with teaching on mutual grace relationships.<BR/><BR/>Neilneil moorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04381046852732380906noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7649826198961930411.post-15672567768688432242008-10-11T14:44:00.000+11:002008-10-11T14:44:00.000+11:00I would just like to add a thought to the original...I would just like to add a thought to the original proposition of Healy.<BR/><BR/>The Lord God appears to have recorded an awful lot of intricate activity in the four or so thousand years of biblical history. If the Lord God has been so intensely active and desired for that activity to be known then it doesn't make much sense that the Lord God would have created the setting which was to be a key focus of His attention only to wait eons before commencing that activity.<BR/><BR/>Sam Druckersam druckerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10410050665216630349noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7649826198961930411.post-18353719334884907842008-10-11T14:01:00.000+11:002008-10-11T14:01:00.000+11:00Wittgenstein’s proposition: ‘Where (or of what) on...Wittgenstein’s proposition: ‘Where (or of what) one cannot speak, one must remain silent’ could be valuable in this argument. For example, when we (who do not know the mind of God) try and understand Him through our mortal senses in the our immediate universe, how are we to make sense of even the first line in the Bible?: In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. From our linear understanding of our own lives and history, we can imagine a beginning, but God has no beginning. Prior to His ‘In the beginning God created the heavens and earth’ He existed outside of time and space. Being omnipotent we can rightly assume that He can do this. But it is hard for us to imagine, but He did. It is also hard for us to imagine (let alone construct) a four-sided triangle, but if God is all powerful maybe He can. It would be fine to have faith in God that He could will such thing, but it is beyond my imagination to understand such a thing, and this is simple geometry, not the making of the universe, and life, love, and faith. <BR/><BR/>Neil, I think you, we, have to be careful when we say things like: “God’s intention”. I have enough trouble cooking a soft-boiled egg just right for my and my wife’s breakfast, and it only takes about three minutes, yet we (and I include scientific-Darwinian-evolutionists here too) seem to think we can unravel the entire history of everything and how it began? I would applaud all our efforts if, and only if, we were not so obsessed in finding a ‘conclusion’ that we want to believe to be right so we can ‘order’ our lives and the lives of others (this includes animals). <BR/><BR/>So again: ‘Where (or of what) one cannot speak, one must remain silent’.Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06016790525539198927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7649826198961930411.post-47569852334302893622008-10-11T01:32:00.000+11:002008-10-11T01:32:00.000+11:00Phil, thanks for your contribution.Healy, yes, a g...Phil, thanks for your contribution.<BR/><BR/>Healy, yes, a good observation. <BR/><BR/>The Old Testament does describe what appear to me to be harsh judgments from God. We must remember, though, the context in which the judgments are delivered. They are all post-Fall - the Fall which was brought about by man discarding the warning from God and bringing death and suffering into the world. It is within this context that God acts in judgement upon acts committed against the order of creation.<BR/><BR/>Prior to the Fall, the order of creation was one of mutual grace relationships. Or, at least, that was God's intention. We see mutual grace relationships expressed within the Godhead ie Father, Son, Holy Spirit, each giving of themselves to the glory of the other and, in God's great plan of salvation, to the creation. So I think I am on safe ground in saying that was the intention of God for his creation. The Ten Commandments are an expression of the upholding of mutual grace relationships.<BR/><BR/>Yes, there are painful judgments of God in the O.T. and warnings of them in the N.T., but there is always, at the very least, a tinge of grace. The great act of grace was that of God in the Person of Jesus Christ, paying the price of a death he did not deserve, so that those who believe in him will have life and have it to the full. In the context of the post-Fall order of life, God the innocent submitted himself to be murdered by his own creation. There is a lot we look at and wonder why does it have to be so.<BR/><BR/>I trust that God is acting rightly. All will be vividly clear to me one day.<BR/><BR/>Neilneil moorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04381046852732380906noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7649826198961930411.post-34274080415294825792008-10-10T18:26:00.000+11:002008-10-10T18:26:00.000+11:00I liken this to someone inviting someone they love...<I>I liken this to someone inviting someone they love to the house they have built and then ensuring everything is in order before the beloved guest arrives. It is a lack of esteem to invite the beloved guest to an untidy/disordered house. If we set the house in order how much more would God do it for man whom he loves.</I><BR/><BR/>That analogy is a little different to what I was saying :)<BR/><BR/>As to your <I>God has made it clear that he does not have to go through a painstaking and elongated process to produce something of quality.</I><BR/><BR/>There are unfortunately many man instances in the Old Testament of God using painFUL and elongated processes to have his wayHealyhatmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00274157595700818024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7649826198961930411.post-54716344778289443642008-10-10T10:30:00.000+11:002008-10-10T10:30:00.000+11:00In the Gospel of Matthew we hear Jesus say: "So do...In the Gospel of Matthew we hear Jesus say: "So do not fear; you are more valuable than many sparrows"; this does seem to suggest a hierarchy. However, it would make little sense if Jesus wasn't trying to suggest that even sparrows are valuable to God. He could have said: Broken crockery is broken crockery and you are more valuable to God than broken crockery. Not that I want to imagine the mind of God, I can think of nothing more blasphemous.Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06016790525539198927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7649826198961930411.post-14185757894596837832008-10-10T01:23:00.000+11:002008-10-10T01:23:00.000+11:00Healy, you are right when you say God is eternal a...Healy, you are right when you say God is eternal and he need not be concerned about time duration in doing things. However, I would add "so long as it suits his purposes."<BR/><BR/>He has made it clear in Scripture that he created an orderly environment for man and then made man to inhabit it.<BR/><BR/>I liken this to someone inviting someone they love to the house they have built and then ensuring everything is in order before the beloved guest arrives. It is a lack of esteem to invite the beloved guest to an untidy/disordered house. If we set the house in order how much more would God do it for man whom he loves. <BR/><BR/>Having put in place an ordered habitation for man, God then made man to inhabit the place. God could have been quicker than a period of six days but I find it wonderful that he chose to restrain himself to a period which was something of a sign to a six day working week by which man seems to benefit (Exodus 20:8-11).<BR/><BR/>The 'tweaking' you refer to as an evolutionary process is not compatible with love because of its components of suffering, death and frustrations. When Charles Darwin came to believe these components were instruments for the evolution of life he could no longer entertain any notion of the God of the Bible as being the Creator of life. He couldn't see any love in this.<BR/><BR/>I don't think your analogy of the photo and the painting fits the scenario of creation which we are discussing. You are seeing the production of the painting through the constraints of life as it is for man. It does take man some painstaking and elongated period of time to produce the work of quality. God has made it clear that he does not have to go through a painstaking and elongated process to produce something of quality. Consider the parts of the human body but consider also the wine created instantaneously by Jesus Christ from water and which was deemed by the Master of Ceremonies at the wedding in Cana to be high quality wine.<BR/><BR/>Neilneil moorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04381046852732380906noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7649826198961930411.post-26120031386068247622008-10-09T23:19:00.000+11:002008-10-09T23:19:00.000+11:00I don't "care" I'm "interested".Interested in what...I don't "care" I'm "interested".<BR/><BR/>Interested in what it matters to you if God showed his power by creating everything in 6 days or showed his power by starting the process and subtly guiding it over the course of 14billion years. If God showed his love by creating humans instantly compared with subtly pushing and prodding over the course of 4billion.<BR/><BR/>Just wondering <I>why</I> you think being created instantly out of dirt makes him love you more than if he created you as a result of billions of years of subtle tweaks. I would think a God with the power to make things instantly wouldn't value them as highly, seeing as if he breaks it he could just make another one.<BR/><BR/>What would <I>you</I> love more, a picture you took on a camera or a painting you painstakingly rendered over the course of a month?Healyhatmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00274157595700818024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7649826198961930411.post-11500518322031594432008-10-09T17:48:00.000+11:002008-10-09T17:48:00.000+11:00What does Healy care anyway?But one thing that dis...What does Healy care anyway?<BR/><BR/>But one thing that distinguished God's creative acts was the <I>speed</I>. E.g. Jesus displayed His divinity by instantaneous turning water into wine, instead of over months. The faithful centurion likewise recognized Jesus' power to cure his sick servant <I>instantly</I> with just a word of command (Matt. 8:5–13). The centurion realized that even his own orders were obeyed immediately and without question. Therefore, he realized, how much more would the commands of the Lord of Creation be obeyed. <BR/><BR/>Likewise, God's creative acts during Creation Week were likewise instuted by God's commands, and were over by the time the day was closed, and able to be assessed as "very good".Ktisophiloshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16718156076583190052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7649826198961930411.post-57067505834169340252008-10-09T14:47:00.000+11:002008-10-09T14:47:00.000+11:00Why then would God create a world which, as it is ...<I>Why then would God create a world which, as it is held by biblical scholars, was made fit for man to inhabit and then wait billions of years before creating man - the object of his love and great plan -to inhabit that world and relate to God.</I><BR/><BR/><I>When you really do love someone you can't wait to be with them. You rush out to meet them and fret when they aren't with you by your side.</I><BR/><BR/>Isn't your God supposed to be eternal? If so, time doesn't really hold much meaning: he could afford to wait as long as he wants.<BR/><BR/>And, being God and able to create universes in an instant, by the same argument you use why would he create humans at the start of his "plan" and not just go straight to the resolution? Maybe part of the plan WAS to allow sentient species to arise naturally. It wouldn't matter much to a God: like I said, an eternal being can afford to wait as long as he or she wants.Healyhatmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00274157595700818024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7649826198961930411.post-37036903436517144932008-10-09T13:52:00.000+11:002008-10-09T13:52:00.000+11:00Healy, gutter atheistic sites can't seem to make u...Healy, gutter atheistic sites can't seem to make up their collective minds whether Nazism was based on Catholicism or Lutheranism.<BR/><BR/>But in reality, Hitler's eugenics policy was invented by Darwin's cousin Francis Galton and promoted by Darwin's son Leonard. Hitler's anti-slavic racist policy and murder of 3 million Polish Christians is hardly compatible with Christianity. See also <A HREF="http://www.csustan.edu/history/faculty/weikart/fromdarwintohitler.htm" REL="nofollow">From Darwin to Hitler: Evolutionary Ethics, Eugenics, and Racism in Germany by Richard Weikart</A>.<BR/><BR/>Here is a chilling Nazi propaganda video, <I>Victims of the Past</I> (<I>Opfer der Vergangenheit</I>, 1937):<BR/><BR/>http://www.youtube.com/v/LiO_c5-6_Hw<BR/><BR/>‘Everything in the natural world that is weak for life will ineluctably [unavoidably] be destroyed. In the last few decades, mankind has sinned terribly against the law of natural selection. We haven’t just maintained life unworthy of life, we have even allowed it to multiply! The descendants of these sick people look like this!’ <BR/><BR/>Read also the book <I>The Myth of Hitler's Pope</I> by Rabbi David Dalin. He documents how Pope Pius XII was always staunchly opposed to Nazism, hid hundreds of Jews in his personal summer house, encouraged Jew-saving operations across Europe, and was widely praised by Jewish leaders and Israeli prime ministers Golda Meir and Moshe Sharett. Indeed, he saved more Jews than Schindler. See <A HREF="http://www.lewrockwell.com/woods/woods48.html" REL="nofollow">this review</A> and <A HREF="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciX41Ex7DtI" REL="nofollow">this video summary</A>.Ktisophiloshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16718156076583190052noreply@blogger.com